Omari Salisbury  

All right, everybody. I'm joined by Erica C. Barnett, Editor of publiccola.com. How are you today?

Erica C. Barnett  

I'm great Omari, how are you?

Omari Salisbury  

I'm okay. As usual. I was reading your website publiccola.com and I came across this "Renton City Council to the Homeless: No Room at The Inn." Tell us all about it.

Erica C. Barnett  

The Renton city council has voted overwhelmingly to kick out a bunch of unsheltered people, about 235, that are living in the Red Lion right now. And they're going to do that in two stages, they are going to have to reduce that population to 125, in the beginning of next June, and then next December a year from now everybody has to be out. And the way they did this is through a zoning law that essentially says, a homeless shelter is not allowed in this zone. So that's the top line. They also adopted some legislation that's going to make it really hard for shelters to set up elsewhere and Renton and is going to limit the number of people they can serve to a total of 100.

Omari Salisbury  

Right. And now, what brought this about in the Renton City Council, what was the catalyst behind this legislation?

Erica C. Barnett  

Well, the Renton city council and a lot of homeowners businesses in the area have really not wanted this, the shelter to be there in the first place. the people came in last year, right near the beginning of the year, sorry, earlier this year at the beginning of the pandemic, because they were living at the Morrison Hotel in downtown Seattle, which is a really, really crowded shelter, was a really crowded shelter where people kind of stayed in bunks, like right on top of each other. And, and so they had to move because of COVID. It was sort of done in an emergency way because it's an emergency, King County moved them out there. And a lot of folks in Renton have been trying to get them out ever since. There's litigation that's ongoing right now. The separate from this whole legislation question where they're trying to claim that this is an illegal zone issue, that it's not allowed under the zoning, I think the legislation kind of circumvents that, But yeah, I mean, this is an ongoing battle. And this is just the latest volley and I actually don't think it's going to be the last one either.

Omari Salisbury  

Right. And does any of this also, I know this is the catalyst you said was a red lion. But there's been an ongoing discussion around homelessness and homeless shelters across King County. I know that executive Constantine, actually last time we actually talked the executive wanted to have like a regional approach to homelessness. But some of the cities opted out by taking advantage of law about taxing, taxation law, and some of everything else. What's the vibe that you're getting from some of the other cities around King County, especially the ones that border Seattle when it comes to the homelessness issue?

Erica C. Barnett  

Well, I think that Renton is a really good example. It's one of those cities, I think they were seven or so and all that opted out of the homelessness tax that the county passed and that taxes is basically a sales tax that's going to pay for housing for people with essentially no income who are homeless. And, a lot of the cities that we don't want to participate in that they pass their own taxes in Renton, it's going to pay and actually in several other cities, it's going to pay for housing for people making up to 80% of median income, which is not homeless people. It's you know, it's almost middle-income people in the Seattle area. I mean, you know, a lot of people we know, and possibly I, you know, I would qualify for some of the stuff so. Yeah, it's, it's a way of saying, you know, we're opting out, and we don't agree with this regional approach. And I think it really bodes poorly for a truly regional approach, where everybody's kind of on the same page with what they're going to do about homelessness. We're already seeing, you know, this is not even sub-regional. This is cities going their own way.

Omari Salisbury  

Right and do a lot of cities feel like, Hey, we don't really have our own homeless problem. We're just getting an overflow from Seattle, and that's why they feel, they're going their own way. And if that is the case, you know, with this rent moratorium, and a lot of people are not homeless right now, because of things subsidizing them, you know,  or moratoriums in place. Do you think that some of these suburban cities might be hit with their homegrown homelessness Soon? 

Erica C. Barnett  

Well, I think that and this is one of the things that kind of got me most frustrated when I was watching and live-tweeting the meeting. There's this sense that this is a Seattle problem. But the reason people are in Seattle who becomes homeless and other places is that this is where you can actually get services because we don't have things like zoning rules that, you know, prohibit homeless shelters and things like that. In fact, we don't zone that stuff at all. There's a lot of services here. And so when people say that Seattle is a magnet, what it really means is that we're a magnet for cities that don't offer anything to the people who become homeless there. So people become homeless and Renton often ends up in downtown Seattle because they can get food because they can get shelter. So I think it's totally a misnomer. And when you look at surveys of people every year, you know about where they came from. Most of the people in Seattle came from King County, and they did not all come from Seattle. So I think that the idea thing about this is a regional problem is, is really, you know, let's not just think of it as something we all need to solve, but also a problem that every single city in this region deals with, it's just that Seattle, you know, because we're the big city, because we're the ones with the tax base, and we tend to have a more liberal population, maybe, you know, we offer the services and so when I hear people saying, When I heard people saying last night, you know, this is something Seattle's dumping on us people kept saying, you know, these people aren't our problem. They don't they didn't come from here. Well, they absolutely did. And, and so I think that's just a real misunderstanding of how homelessness works and a misunderstanding of the fact that it is not just a city problem.

Omari Salisbury  

You're right about that, in the sense, actually, when I think about it, there are quite a few homeless people, transitional people that this summer, I've spent a lot more time since this summer, and even now and even covering what's going on up there at Cal Anderson Park, and that proposed sweep tomorrow. But I talked to a lot of those people, they really a lot of them are from suburban cities in King County, and they've come into the city because they know that they can get some kind of refuge or some kind of shelter. And so maybe perhaps looking at this issue, as Seattle was the place where a lot of people migrate to, as opposed to Seattle, pushing their homeless on to other cities might be a more realistic perspective around the problem.

Erica C. Barnett  

 Yeah, I mean, I think that in the same way that you know, if you look at youth homelessness, a lot of times it's youth coming from places where they don't feel welcome, for various reasons, because of their identity. You know, they were kicked out of homes, that, you know, are not accepting, I mean, all kinds of reasons that people become homeless, and they do tend to end up in cities, because cities, you know, in addition to offering services tend to be places where people can find community, you know, even if it's not, like an ideal community, because you're still, you know, in a community of people who are homeless and struggling. You know, there are reasons that people end up in Seattle and it's not just that Seattle somehow magically produces homelessness and suburban cities don't.

Omari Salisbury  

Right, now taking it back to this particular Red Lion there in Renton flip side of the issue. People would say hey, you know what? Red Lion was just sitting here became a homeless shelter 911 calls doubled and tripled their you know, medic one calls incidents of X Y&Z. You know, How did the sheltering agency, what was their defense around that? So did they come with a plan to be able to manage. I know, people kind of haphazardly around the pandemic came into one place. But that was some of the responses that I saw on the resident’s side when I was looking at comments. 

Erica C. Barnett  

Yeah, I mean, I think the response from the agency, which is the downtown Emergency Service Center, has been that the number of I mean, yes, that in Renton the number of number 911 calls and medic responses and things like that has increased because they have not been, you know, sheltering this population before. The response from the agency has been that the number of 911 calls and medic responses and all that to this population has dramatically decreased to these, you know, particular people who are staying in a place where they have private rooms where they have a door that locks where they can take a shower where they can sleep without being afraid that someone's going to steal all their stuff, you know, or afraid of assault, the number of crisis calls has really, really declined. And that's evidence of a real improvement in this population. You can't take an unsheltered population that, you know, is unwelcome, almost everywhere, because they have complex problems like addiction, like mental illnesses, you know, all kinds of trauma from living on the streets long term and expect them to have you know, magically no problems. The second you put them in a hotel, what's kind of amazing and miraculous is how much they've improved. And so I think that the agencies and the people that are trying to to help these folks would say that, you know, there's been a dramatic improvement you know, and the fact that this is happening in Renton is going to mean perhaps that there needs to be more of emergency response and more investment in emergency response. And I think that's a legitimate debate to be having. But I don't think that the starting point for the debate should correctly be let's just kick all these people out and make them go back to downtown Seattle.

Omari Salisbury  

Right and now There's something in the legislation that actually has geographic or distance restrictions between how far apart shelters can be. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Erica C. Barnett  

Yeah, so as I mentioned, it's done through zoning, which is kind of an unusual way of doing homeless shelters. But it's pretty common in suburban cities that don't want homeless shelters. So this is modeled on a Bellevue law, which has resulted in zero homeless shelters in Bellevue. And also I think, on a Puyallup law. So basically, it says, among other things, they have to be half a mile apart, and none can serve more than 100 people, which is a very, very small number when you're looking at a homeless population of 15,000 people or so in King County. So the effect of that, and then there are other zoning rules that say they can only be in certain kinds of industrial and commercial spaces, and you know, the effect is all just whittled down, whittled down whittle down the number of places where homeless shelters could even conceivably be, and then you have all these other requirements that are, you know, behavioral court mandates on the people who stay at these places or use the services. And the effect, according to the people who actually provide these services, is that it's essentially a ban. There, theoretically, you could have a very small homeless shelter, you know, in an industrial area serving a tiny percentage of people, but the number of restrictions that would be placed on it, and just kind of the cost-benefit ratio to a homeless service provider with very limited resources to provide this sort of stuff would be, you know, well, it just makes more sense to do this somewhere else and serve more people.

Omari Salisbury  

Right. I know, homelessness is complex. And we probably don't even have enough time today, tomorrow, the next day to talk about all the issues around it. But one of the things we're clear we're talking about is services people, it seems like maybe you can give an indication of how big is the gap between the actual amount of people or the need and the services that are provided and services in totality, you know, between government, between private organizations, How wide is the gap? 

Erica C. Barnett  

Well, I can't put a number on it. But you know, it's certainly billions of dollars. And it certainly, you know, at least I think the last count was seven, some thousand people just counted in January, living on the streets, the real number is obviously much higher. So anybody who's living unsheltered is not being served, people should be able to have a shelter or ideally housing situation that is appropriate for them. So all those people I would say, you know, virtually answer, even if they are using some aspect of the homeless system. But, you know, I mean, I think you or I could go down the street, you know, right now and walk or drive and see tons and tons of people who are living in tents in horrible conditions, which is absolutely unacceptable in you know, 2020 United States. So while I can't put a number on it, I mean, you can you can see it right now, because it's incredibly visible because we aren't, you know, Cal Anderson sweep tomorrow aside, we aren't removing people as much as we used to. So the problem can really be seen in a visual way. And I think that's also why we're seeing so much pushback, you know, not just, you know, I don't want to dump everything on Renton and suburban cities, but also in Seattle, there's a ton of pushback to you know, somehow disappear homeless people without actually spending the billions of dollars it would cost to house everybody,  provide treatment, and provide mental health care. And, you know, I mean, it just the list goes on and on. But we should be doing an isn't.

Omari Salisbury  

There's supposed to be a sweep there in Cal Anderson, and we see visual homelessness here all around Seattle. what's the larger temperature around homelessness now in Seattle, and as far as a city government, what city governments’ overall position do you think towards homelessness? We hear more of a louder voice now. We see documentaries, really, you know, highlighting homelessness as a major issue here in Seattle. But I mean, in your opinion, where are we out of it as a city around the issue of homelessness?

Erica C. Barnett  

I mean, I think it depends on who you talk to. I think there is a real sense of urgency at the city government level to actually try to start doing things. I think you saw that this year with the abolition or you know, whatever the dismantling of the navigation team, which removes encampments, or removed encampments, and funding for, you know, some number of 300 new in temporary hotel rooms for people. So there's some urgency around it. On the other hand, I think there is because it's so visible right now, I think there is a real pushback, and I think that's why you saw Seattle is dying Part Two this weekend. And why you see so much sort of blaming in particularly in the right-wing media, but just among people in the public in general public comment. You know, it's the problem is that it. It always has been but the problem that people who are frustrated with this often express that we don't want to see this. And as opposed to we don't want this to exist. And I think that's, I think that's the real tension, and always has been, but it's really coming to a head right now. With the fact that tents are just filling up public spaces the way they are. I mean, it's bad. Anybody can see it's bad. It was bad before, but now it's visibly bad. Because we're not sweeping it under the rug as much.

Omari Salisbury  

Right. moving into 2021. What would you like to see if if you had the magic wand? What kind of actions would you like to see the city in accounting take in regards to the homeless issue?

Erica C. Barnett  

Well, I think if we're going to have a regional approach, which we've said we're going to do, you know, so let's start there, I think that there has to be, there has to be some consequences for cities that say, we want to be part of this regional effort, and then who refuse to participate in the regional effort. Now, I'm not smart enough to know what those consequences should be. But we have a regional agency that 30 some odd cities insisted on being a part of. They don't pay into it in any way. But they are a part of it. And if they want to be at the table and making these regional, countywide decisions, they need to give a little and I think, passing zoning laws that ban homeless shelters and saying, you know, we don't want to pay this tax to help the most desperate people, there should be some consequences. And I also think, you know, we need a huge revision of our spending priorities not just at the local and regional level, but at the state level, because as Jenny Durkin likes to say a lot and as leaders before her, certainly said to, you know, this is not even just a regional problem. And more importantly, I think, the amount of money we can get at a regional level, even if we pass a, you know, a Seattle City income tax tomorrow, and it's upheld, and you know, and all of that, it's, it's not going to be enough. So we need state dollars to and that's to pay for, you know, primarily I think housing and then after housing, all the other things that people you know, sort of need to to recover and, and get back on their feet. And that's, you know, that's treatment. That's mental health care. That's physical health care. It's a it's a lot of stuff in it cost a lot of money, and we've never been willing to invest in it.

Omari Salisbury  

All right. Erica C. Barnett, editor of public Cola, calm. Thank you so much for your time.

Erica C. Barnett  

Thanks, Omari.